MINUTES OF THE 2022 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF
THE SOUTHAMPTON & DISTRICT BILLIARDS AND SNOOKER ASSOCIATION
HELD AT CHANDLERS FORD CENTRAL CLUB ON 20 JULY 2022
Attendees: Terry Azor (President) (Chandlers Ford), Paul Adams (Chairman) (Churchills), Chris Bishop (League Secretary) (St Denys), Andy Carter (Results Secretary) (St Denys), Nick Wood (Hamble), Mark Spridgeon (Hamble), Korbin Lowe (Chandlers Ford), Steve Allen (Totton Rec), Mick Kunzi (Totton Rec), Mike Thatcher (Totton Rec), Brian Bull (Curdridge), Derek Fry (Curdridge), Paul Lawrence (Park Gate), Dave White (Chandlers Ford), Mike Henstredge (Churchills), Danny Zagaroli (Chandlers Ford)
ITEM 1 – APOLOGIES
Apologies were received from Tony Aldridge (Totton Rec).
ITEM 2 – MINUTES OF PREVIOUS AGM (25 Aug 2021)
It was proposed by Paul Adams, seconded by Chris Bishop, that the published Minutes of the previous AGM be accepted as the true record of the proceedings. Carried
ITEM 3 – MATTERS ARISING
There were no matters arising.
ITEM 4 – ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Paul Adams indicated that due to a variety of commitments he no longer wishes to continue as Chairman. Mark Spridgeon and Paul Lawrence both were prepared to step into the role, with Mark happy to give way to Paul to be proposed as the new Chairman.
Paul Lawrence was elected unanimously as the new Chairman.
The other Officers were all prepared to remain in their roles, and no ohers amongst those present indicated a desire to step into any of those roles.
Terry Azor, Chris Bishop and Andy Carter therefore remained in their roles.
ITEM 5 – RULE CHANGES
It was noted that some of the proposed rule changes were in direct competition with each other, so would need to be discussed jointly, rather than in isolation.
Proposal 1 (proposed by Andy Carter/Chris Bishop)
Andy Carter explained the principles behind this. To pro-rata reduce, by 10%, the points needed to be scored by each player on a match night. The purpose of this is to reduce late finishes, which have become more of an issue recently. Each player’s handicap would still be calculated as per the present system (moving by 5 points up or down depending on the result in their game) but the “starting points” would now differ to the handicap. For example, a “scratch” (zero) handicap player would now have to only score 180 points on a match night rather than 200. As a result, their “starting points” would be +20. A minus 250 player would now only have to score 405 points rather than 450, meaning their “starting points” would be -205.
The ”starting points” will not become the new handicap, however. If it did, the better players would slowly creep up again towards -250 and the effect of the change would be lost for those players within a season or two. Carried
Proposal 2 (proposed by Tony Aldridge/Brian Cannons)
This proposal was identical to Proposal 1, but stipulated that the points needed to be scored by an individual on a match night be reduced by 20%. However, this could not be discussed as neither Tony nor Brian were present at the AGM. Not discussed
Proposal 3 (proposed by Brian Bull/Clive Gamblin)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 4 (proposed by Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon)
The proposal was for teams to play each other in handicap order, to save time sorting out the draw and to allow higher handicap players to develop against players of similar ability. This would end lesser players playing against opponents they simply could not beat (due to the maximum handicap perhaps being artificially low) and might encourage more players to join the league. Withdrawn
Proposal 5 (proposed by Terry Azor/John Mullane)
This proposal was for away captains to put their players where they wanted in the draw, after the home captain had written-up his team. This would mean there would be no draw “out of the hat” for pairings but instead the away captain could take a tactical view and put his players against whomever he wanted them to play. Matches might also start earlier if this proposal was adopted. Carried
Proposal 6 (proposed by Chris Bishop/Andy Carter)
This proposal was there as it was felt that Proposals 4 & 5 might “skew” handicaps. This proposal therefore proposed that handicap adjustments be made after each league cycle, rather than after each game as is current practice.
If high handicap players only played each other (for instance, if Proposal 4 was adopted) and lower handicap players only played each other (also Proposal 4) then that might artificially affect handicaps so that when competitions were played a number of people might have “false” handicap. Withdrawn
Mark Spridgeon was happy to withdraw Proposal 4 in favour of Proposal 5. It was felt that Proposal 5 would not unduly “skew” handicaps and therefore Chris Bishop withdrew Proposal 6.
Proposal 5 was carried.
Proposal 7 (proposed by Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon)
This proposal was to change the summer snooker league from a team competition to an individual competition.
Nick Wood felt that, unlike struggling to get a team together for team league games, an individual snooker league would be contested by keen players.
Chris Bishop advised that the idea behind a team competition was to encourage teams to enter the billiards league once they had played summer snooker. As this season’s snooker league was really a “pilot” event, Chris felt that more time was needed to allow things to develop. Not carried
Proposal 8 (proposed by Terry Azor/John Mullane)
This proposal was for the billiard league format to be teams of four players rather than the current five players. This was withdrawn by Terry Azor as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would fulfil the same aims as this proposal, namely to reduce match times and late nights. Withdrawn
Proposal 9 (proposed by Chris Bishop)
The proposal was for the home player to always break (with the yellow/”spot” ball) to avoid wasting time “stringing”. This might save a few minutes on a match night. Not carried
Proposal 10 (The Four Man Rule)
This was more a call for a discussion than an actual proposal.
It was agreed that the Four Man Rule be kept, having been brought in after Covid to reduce postponements. Each team may use the rule twice per cycle (as things stand that would be four times per season) though no single individual may play twice on a night on more than one occasion in a season.
It was agreed that the individual’s second game on a given night would not count towards ranking points.
That individual would play off the same handicap for each of his two games on a given night. His handicap the following week would be calculated on the outcome of the first of those games (unless if he won one and lost one his handicap would be unaltered).
Korbin Lowe raised the idea of three man teams helping new teams to enter the league (perhaps clubs where there is only one table). Whilst a welcome comment, it was noted that such clubs might be some distance from the Southampton area and would therefore mean significant travel distance.
ITEM 6 – ACCOUNTS
The balance sheet was produced by Chris Bishop.
Many “one-off” expenses have been paid in the past twelve months as trophies have been manufactured and (of course) paid for. These are now in place and, as a result, the expense on trophies in forthcoming years will be significantly reduced.
It was noted that some clubs still owed money from previous seasons, but it was agreed that this be written-off.
The HSBC account was closed in the Spring as, from January, charges began to be implemented which equated to a significant portion of association funds (between 10% and 20% of income).
An online “clubs and associations” account is now being sought and it is hoped that will be in place soon.
The funds held are currently in Andy Carter’s account (joint account with wife so if he’s hit by a bus there will still be access) though this is obviously not ideal.
The point was reiterated that captains are responsible for collecting fees for individual competitions and forwarding that money on. It is hoped that the new account may have the facility for funds to be deposited directly to it.
Clubs remain responsible for team entries, e.g. to the league.
ITEM 7: CORRESPONDENCE
No correspondence was received.
ITEM 8: ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Trophies were handed out to various winners of competitions, though the Usher Shield remains with Chris Bishop at present.
The League Shield also remains with Chris as an upgrade is planned for it.
We are steering away from awarding runners-up trophies, but if there is support for them they may return in the future. Given the significant expenses on trophies recently it was felt that runners-up trophies could be dispensed with for this past season at least.
It was noted that the forthcoming season will consist of two “cycles” so each team will play every other team twice. This will allow the vast majority of games (league, cup, individuals) to be played on Wednesdays. The doubles matches will probably all be allocated to Thursdays.
Small gifts of appreciation were also handed-out to Paul Adams, Peter Green and Sid Hunt for their contributions in their various roles over the years. Paul accepted his and Peter’s gifts, whilst Terry Azor accepted the gift for Sid.
We wish them all well for the future, and hope to see them at games…at least now and again.
The meeting was closed by the President at 9:30pm
2022 AGM Minutes
MINUTES OF THE 2022 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF THE SOUTHAMPTON & DISTRICT BILLIARDS AND SNOOKER ASSOCIATION HELD AT CHANDLERS FORD CENTRAL CLUB ON 20th July
PRESENT:
Terry Azor (Chandlers Ford) - President
Paul Adams (Churchills) (Outgoing Chairman)
Chris Bishop (St Denys) - League Secretary/Website/Accounts
Andrew Carter (St Denys) - (Results Secretary)
Paul Lawrence (Park Gate) - (Incoming Chairman)
Mike Henstredge (Churchills)
Mike Thatcher (Totton Rec)
Mike Kunzi (Totton Rec)
Steve Allen (Totton Rec)
Brian Bull (Curdridge)
Derek Fry (Curdridge)
Nick Wood (Hamble Social)
Mark Spridgeon (Hamble Social)
Dave White (Chandlers Ford Central)
Korbin Lowe (Chandlers Ford Central)
Danny Zagaroli (Chandlers Ford Central)
ITEM 1 – APOLOGIES
Apologies were received from Tony Aldridge (Totton Rec).
ITEM 2 – MINUTES OF PREVIOUS AGM (31 July 2019)
It was proposed by Paul Adams, seconded by Chris Bishop, that the published Minutes of the previous AGM be accepted as the true record of the proceedings. Carried
ITEM 3 – MATTERS ARISING
There were no matters arising.
ITEM 4 – ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Paul Adams indicated that due to a variety of commitments he no longer wishes to continue as Chairman. Mark Spridgeon and Paul Lawrence both were prepared to step into the role, with Mark happy to give way to Paul to be proposed as the new Chairman. Paul Lawrence was elected unanimously as the new Chairman. The other Officers were all prepared to remain in their roles, and no ohers amongst those present indicated a desire to step into any of those roles. Terry Azor, Chris Bishop and Andy Carter therefore remained in their roles.
ITEM 5 – RULE CHANGES
It was noted that some of the proposed rule changes were in direct competition with each other, so would need to be discussed jointly, rather than in isolation.
Proposal 1 (Andy Carter/Chris Bishop, St Denys)
Andy Carter explained the principles behind this. To pro-rata reduce, by 10%, the points needed to be scored by each player on a match night. The purpose of this is to reduce late finishes, which have become more of an issue recently. Each player’s handicap would still be calculated as per the present system (moving by 5 points up or down depending on the result in their game) but the “starting points” would now differ to the handicap. For example, a “scratch” (zero) handicap player would now have to only score 180 points on a match night rather than 200. As a result, their “starting points” would be +20. A minus 250 player would now only have to score 405 points rather than 450, meaning their “starting points” would be -205.
The ”starting points” will not become the new handicap, however. If it did, the better players would slowly creep up again towards -250 and the effect of the change would be lost for those players within a season or two. Carried
Proposal 2 (Tony Aldridge/Brian Cannons, Totton)
This proposal was identical to Proposal 1, but stipulated that the points needed to be scored by an individual on a match night be reduced by 20%. However, this could not be discussed as neither Tony nor Brian were present at the AGM. Not discussed
Proposal 3 (Brian Bull/Clive Gamblin, Curdridge)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 4 (Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon, Totton Rec)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 5 (Terry Azor/John Mullane, Chandlers Ford)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 6 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 7 (Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon, Hamble)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 8 (Terry Azor/John Mullane, Chandlers Ford)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 9 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 10
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
ITEM 6 – ACCOUNTS
The balance sheet was produced by Chris Bishop.
Many “one-off” expenses have been paid in the past twelve months as trophies have been manufactured and (of course) paid for. These are now in place and, as a result, the expense on trophies in forthcoming years will be significantly reduced.
It was noted that some clubs still owed money from previous seasons, but it was agreed that this be written-off.
The HSBC account was closed in the Spring as, from January, charges began to be implemented which equated to a significant portion of association funds (between 10% and 20% of income).
An online “clubs and associations” account is now being sought and it is hoped that will be in place soon.
The funds held are currently in Andy Carter’s account (joint account with wife so if he’s hit by a bus there will still be access) though this is obviously not ideal.
The point was reiterated that captains are responsible for collecting fees for individual competitions and forwarding that money on. It is hoped that the new account may have the facility for funds to be deposited directly to it.
Clubs remain responsible for team entries, e.g. to the league.
ITEM 7 – CORRESPONDENCE
No correspondence was received
ITEM 8 – ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Trophies were handed out to various winners of competitions, though the Usher Shield remains with Chris Bishop at present.
The League Shield also remains with Chris as an upgrade is planned for it.
We are steering away from awarding runners-up trophies, but if there is support for them they may return in the future. Given the significant expenses on trophies recently it was felt that runners-up trophies could be dispensed with for this past season at least.
It was noted that the forthcoming season will consist of two “cycles” so each team will play every other team twice. This will allow the vast majority of games (league, cup, individuals) to be played on Wednesdays. The doubles matches will probably all be allocated to Thursdays.
Small gifts of appreciation were also handed-out to Paul Adams, Peter Green and Sid Hunt for their contributions in their various roles over the years. Paul accepted his and Peter’s gifts, whilst Terry Azor accepted the gift for Sid.
We wish them all well for the future, and hope to see them at games…at least now and again.
The meeting was closed by the President at 9:30pm
2021 AGM Minutes
MINUTES OF THE 2021 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF THE SOUTHAMPTON & DISTRICT BILLIARDS AND SNOOKER ASSOCIATION HELD AT CHANDLERS FORD CENTRAL CLUB ON 25th August
PRESENT:
Sid Hunt President/Accounts Sec (Retiring President/Accounts)
Paul Adams (Churchills) Press Officer/Results Sec (Incoming Chairman)
Chris Bishop (St Denys) - (Incoming League Secretary/Website)
Andrew Carter (St Denys) - (Incoming Results Secretary)
Terry Azor (Chandlers Ford Central) - (Incoming President)
Mark McLean (Churchills)
Mike Thatcher (Totton Rec)
Mike Kunzi (Totton Rec)
Steve Allen (Totton Rec)
Chris Pullen (Park Gate RBL)
Nick Wood (Hamble Social)
Dave White (Chandlers Ford Central)
Korbin Lowe (Chandlers Ford Central)
ITEM 1 – APOLOGIES
Apologies were received from Mark Emm and Malc Willis (St Denys), Tony Aldridge (Totton Rec) and Peter Green (Churchills/Chairman).
ITEM 2 – MINUTES OF PREVIOUS AGM (31 July 2019)
It was proposed by Chris Pullen (Park Gate), seconded by Terry Azor (Chandlers Ford Central) that the published Minutes of the previous AGM be accepted as the true record of the proceedings. Carried
ITEM 3 – MATTERS ARISING
There were no matters arising.
ITEM 4 – ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Both the President (Sid Hunt) and Chairman (Peter Green) indicated that they were no longer willing to continue in their current positions due to personal circumstances. As a result Paul Adams was unanimously elected as Chairman and Terry Azor was unanimously elected as President.
ITEM 5 – RULE CHANGES
Proposal 1 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
To reduce the number of postponed games I propose that if a team is one player short then they have the option of a player playing twice (said player to be nominated by opposing team). Not only will this relieve congestion from postponed fixtures, it will eradicate players travelling long distances to then not even participate in a game. Some teams struggle to field a full team at the best of times and with COVID it may prove even more difficult. If both teams can only field 4 players then the match can be played 4v4 but then the aggregate point would become 2pts.
If a team can only field 3 players then the match would be postponed as normal.
Chris Bishop stated that though he would prefer to see teams of five, this proposal might stop teams folding. It was mentioned by Terry Azor that captains could contact their opposite number in good time, and thus stop players travelling long distances who might then not even get a game. The difficulties of a player playing twice on a night were discussed: the player would probably have to be one of the first two of his team to play that night otherwise it would be difficult to make work. This led to a discussion (slightly off-subject) about games starting on time at 7.30pm, rather than closer
to 8pm. It was mentioned that some kind of handicap revision could occur in order to make games slightly shorter which would perhaps take 5 or 10 minutes off each game (A conversion chart will be put on the website shortly but this will be for information purposes only for now).
The motion was carried on the basis that those individuals willing to play a second game are put into a hat and drawn out before the match begins. If no individuals within a team are willing to play a second game then that game is forfeited 200-0.
Carried
Proposal 2 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
To introduce a timed OPTION in the Gordon Lewis group stage. Currently the Gordon Lewis is 300 up in the group stages which is the best format based on highest placed runners up progressing so ideally would not be changed. However, with the new player ranking and the improved format it’s hopeful that this competition will start to grow and encourage a lot more players to enter which will bring its own problems of how long it takes to score 300 points. It’s therefore suggested that an optional 1hr 45minute time limit is introduced and a timer is set when match starts, when timer sounds the match is recorded at the current scores UNLESS the match is 90% completed (270 points) then it will be played through to the conclusion. Players would need to agree on this before match starts and if players fail to agree this rule would come into effect as the standard match rule.
Few people felt that the Gordon Lewis, as a scratch competition, would attract many players whose handicaps are on the higher side as these players would not see themselves as having much chance of winning a game.
Carried
Proposal 3 (Tony Aldridge, Totton Rec)
To reduce match nights to 4v4 for one season. For the coming season drop from 5 players down to 4 players then to be reviewed in 12 months. (As Proposal 1 and 3 are similar then they can be discussed, voted and concluded at the same time).
The proposer of the motion was not present at the meeting. It was pointed-out that teams with a good number of people “signed-on” (such as Chandlers Ford Central) would have more players unable to play regularly if this was brought into the league. It was also felt that we should be seeking to expand the number of people playing, if at all possible, rather than restricting the numbers.
Not Carried
Korbin Lowe raised the idea of league games being time-restricted in the future, and this is an option for the future.
ITEM 6 – ACCOUNTS
The balance sheet was produced by Sid Hunt. The league’s finances continue to be healthy. A question mark was put against the “League Entries” figure for 2019/20 which was shown as £200 but should be £400. Paul Adams will raise this with Sid Hunt.
ITEM 7 – CORRESPONDENCE
No correspondence was received
ITEM 8 – ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Having already shown their appreciation of Sid’s contributions over the years (Sid left the meeting before it concluded) with a round of applause, similar appreciation was shown to Paul Adams for all his work and time given as Results Secretary and Press Officer over 33 years. He will be contacted, infrequently we hope, for advice when it is needed.
The meeting then closed.
Minutes taken by Andrew Carter, Results Secretary August 2021